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Fie on cloudy days

Happy happy me. Yep.

If you want me to break my strike, comment, and if I get more than 15 people saying something before I leave work today, I'll get back on the wagon. Otherwise, my trip to Portland will quite easily keep me off the computer. (And read that story: urban planning is a geekery I embrace whole-heartedly, my idea of a good thing to talk about over pints.)

Comments

( 27 comments — Leave a comment )
wendolen
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:02 pm (UTC)
Cloudy?
What city are you in?
shadowdaddy
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:06 pm (UTC)
Re: Cloudy?
That was "fie" on cloudy days, which in webcowgirl translates as "what's outside my window right now is far, far better."

(aside to T: does it count if I'm not commenting directly to you?)
wendolen
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:07 pm (UTC)
Re: Cloudy?
Ah. When I use "fie," it's to express displeasure with something happening currently. :)
webcowgirl
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:16 pm (UTC)
Re: Cloudy?
Me saying, "Fooey on the clouds, I've got sunshine inside and out today." But yeah, it's lovely out there, I'm glad it's not cloudy today!
wendolen
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:28 pm (UTC)
Re: Cloudy?
Personally, I could do with about a week of weather like Monday's: about 65 degrees, cloudy, and windy.

(The light today is one of the contributing factors to the headache I just took narcotics for, I think.)
darkmane
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:17 pm (UTC)
Hello! Think of all the pixels you're putting out of work by not posting! Think of the pixels!
ironymaiden
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:22 pm (UTC)
But much more can be blamed on a political history that has robbed the Seattle metropolitan area of the consensus and cooperation that Portland and Vancouver enjoy.
this statement makes me sick. he follows to show that it's not about consensus/cooperation, it's about concentrating power and trusting those people to do their jobs. Seattle's process is about consensus and that's why it fails. if we didn't have to have the entire city agree before anything happened, it would be a different place. the article says as much later when describing the administrative systems in Vancouver and Portland.

and no, removing the container docks for high-end housing and a new basketball arena is not an improvement, IMHO. (that's from previous reading on what developers would do with land around SODO.)

i enjoyed this quite a bit. it's getting outdated, but it's a good discussion of where car culture came from and why it hurts communities.
wendolen
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:30 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I was struck by the way he offhandedly mentioned that I-5 through Portland left downtown unscathed but flattened the traditional black neighborhood. Who planned that, huh? Not hard to figure out... and not unlike the decision to make the light-rail underground everywhere but in the Rainier Valley.
ironymaiden
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:42 pm (UTC)
getting rid of those darkies sure made Portland an urban paragon. now if we could just get those slants out of all the prime land around the stadiums, Seattle would be perfect!

assholes.
webcowgirl
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:48 pm (UTC)
They sure keep trying
Yeah, well, when they built I-5 and did the Yesler terrace project, they took out about half of Nihonmachi, including the former Buddhist temple that was right about where the Yesler community center is nowadays.

Now, of course, they want to get the "darkies and furriners" out and turn it into condos. Don't want those poor people living anywhere with a view!
scottscidmore
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:19 pm (UTC)
You mean all that nice fairly flat land between Jackson and Dearborn? Nothing of importance there, just some old buildings...

The dot com bust put a stop to the earlier run at that area, hard to build shiny new office buildings when you're in bankruptcy. But it's trying to make a comeback, this time with residential-commercial on the view side of I5 and office buildings to the east.
scottscidmore
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:07 pm (UTC)
Yeah, the SODO 'planning' seems to be about setting things up so developers can get some lost cost land, slap up condos, and sell it off before the side effects trash the area.

The Port is pushing to move the shipping from its current south waterfront & SODO further south into Boulevard Park and South Park. That region has a lot of lower income folks, the sort not likely to make large political donations or have a loud voice complaining about the truck traffic being dumped in their neighborhoods. Then there's the problem that the railroads foolishly built their switchyards in SODO, near the docks and warehouses, and that some of the displaced shipping will have to pass the 1st Ave S bridge, forcing it to be open more often. But hey, all those people who commute that way could just move into the new condo; right after they get their 500% pay raises.

Fits right along with the Viaduct 'plans', including just scrapping it altogether. Don't worry what that will do to Fremont, Greenwood, and other neighborhoods that will become corridors to I5, or downtown when it discovers a few thousand trucks per day traversing its streets. Hey, the condos there have already been sold, why worry about a little hazmat traffic.
ironymaiden
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:12 pm (UTC)
my favorite viaduct solution is a combo narrowed express tunnel with no downtown exits and a street-level boulevard.
scottscidmore
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:39 pm (UTC)
A street level boulevard totally trashes the "cuts waterfront off from downtown" excuse to get ride of the viaduct. It currently is pretty full of cars in both directions during the day, some 110,000 worth in 3 lanes at 50 mph. Can't narrow it much without turning it into the 520 bridge but a lot longer. There's also an issue with the grade between a tunnel and Aurora, at least one plan showed it too steep for some bus and truck traffic. Then there's the issue of rising sea level, that tunnel has to be designed to be below the high tide mark.

And the street level part is either gridlocked, if you allow E-W cross streets and foot traffic such as you have under the viaduct now, or you've got something like the South Bay Expressways, that really cut parts of the city off, and have just enough cross roads to grind to a halt during commute time.

A replacement elevated structure is the lowest cost, and preserves the unblock E-W traffic, both vehicular and foot. Sling a 3rd deck underneath for foot and bike traffic, where it would be covered against much of the weather; integrate that with the Pike place to waterfront connect and the one to the Ferries. Imagine, a covered bike bypass of downtown Seattle, letting you zip between the Regrade and ferries or stadiums. Get real wild and imagine a monorail line there too, stops for the Market-Aquarium, ferries, stadiums; and good for people going to/from spots west of 3rd Ave.

Of course those people who want waterfront views from their new or yet to be built highrises are out of luck. But I think NW Seattle and the truckers might be a little happier, as would the city core not having to deal with displaced traffic
ironymaiden
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:42 pm (UTC)
i like the carfree level. what if it was a building/buildings with traffic running through it like the convention center?
scottscidmore
Oct. 21st, 2005 08:17 pm (UTC)
You are being thoughtful and rational, I refuse to speak with you! 8-)

I'm not sure I've understand what you are proposing, care to amplify on the idea?. The Convention Center is a lid over I5, which is effectively in a trench at that point - E-W traffic goes over I5.
ironymaiden
Oct. 21st, 2005 11:47 pm (UTC)
i'm imagining casing the elevated highway in buildings. could there be shops and restaurants underneath instead of parking? floors above the top deck with those fabulous views, or an elevated grassy park? perhaps with the upper floors in a sort of crenelated pattern with park in between so that there wouldn't be a solid wall along the water. i'd be concerned about the noise issues except for the part where i've never noticed the traffic sounds in the convention center.
scottscidmore
Oct. 22nd, 2005 11:04 am (UTC)
Hmmm.... I suspect the extra weight would be an issue, but can't say I know for sure. The concept is interesting.

The current parking under the Viaduct is important to the waterfront and Western ave. businesses. They might not be real happy having it taken away.

I'd also think you'd run into opposition from those who feel the Viaduct cuts off the waterfront, especially if you built on top.

If it wasn't for the limited space to the sides, mostly the eastern side, I'd suggest flattening the two car decks, making it a T in cross section, with the bike/pedestrian/Segway path below, and enclose that with building (which makes the cross-arm of the T rather thick). Opens the view from downtown a bit, gives you shops and restaurants, half with a bit of a view and with the foot traffic way right outside their doors. Extend it all the way to the stadiums, 'flying' above Royal Brougham. Foot traffic ramps to First at the current ramps, plus one for Jackson, and then the Pike-waterfront hill climb and Western near Battery. That's about two miles of covered walk/bike trail, and gives better access to downtown for ferry riders. It loosely matches the streetcar route, for people who get tired.

One thing on the noise. I think there are several lower levels of the Convention Center that you don't normally see, acting as barriers against freeway noise. Some research is needed.

ergotia
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:22 pm (UTC)
I read all your posts:)
webcowgirl
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:29 pm (UTC)
:-) :-)

I am geeking, sorry. Yay!
rwx
Oct. 21st, 2005 05:45 pm (UTC)
given the amount you've said about the negative parts of blogging, please count this as negative one comment.
webcowgirl
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:13 pm (UTC)
So, you vote against me breaking the strike?
rwx
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:18 pm (UTC)
yep.
m_cobweb
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:10 pm (UTC)
Here I am! (But too disgruntled after glancing over the article to discuss it.)
seattle_liz
Oct. 21st, 2005 06:14 pm (UTC)
No more (non)strike!!

:)
jessicac
Oct. 21st, 2005 09:59 pm (UTC)
I think you're well-past 15 comments, but here's one more voice in the roar. You better start posting or your inbox will be flooded. ;)
webcowgirl
Oct. 24th, 2005 06:08 am (UTC)
Why thank you!
It only got to 9 people, so I think I shall continue my sulk for a bit now that I got the weekend postings out of the way.
( 27 comments — Leave a comment )

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